Are “Lists” The New Twitter Status Measurement?

Oct

Are “Lists” The New Twitter Status Measurement?

Lists on Twitter

Let me start this off by saying that I have not made use of Twitter’s new “List” feature because I don’t use the Twitter web interface nearly as much as I use Tweetdeck (here’s a great article explaining Lists). At first glance it seems that the new feature is very similar to Tweetdeck’s “Group” feature that enables me to create groupings of specific people who I wish to organize their tweets and perhaps watch them a little more closely than others or for particular reasons. After doing a little research there is one apparent difference: lists are public. My groups in Tweetdeck are not.

I believe this is not just a good expansion of the social networking capabilities of Twitter, but it is also very strategic. I would be willing to bet that the geniuses behind Twitter, while creating a very useful addition to their already powerful and revolutionary tool, have also taken into consideration one of the driving forces behind its popularity: the competitive human nature that pushes for social media status and measurable success.

Think about it: all those endless discussions and articles and tweets and blog posts about the fallacy of chasing numbers, belittling the belief that he who dies with the most friends and followers wins. And yet we all do it. (Oh come on now. Be honest. When was the last time you looked at your follower count on Twitter or the number of friends you have on Facebook? Yeah, me too.)

Do you think it’s an accident that the location of the number of lists you are on is right in line on your profile with the number of followers you have? It’s visible for all to see. And it is another way for others – and ourselves – to measure our success and Twitter “popularity”.

I’ve already noticed this new statistic is showing up in tweets supporting this line of thinking:

Lists Tweet 1

Lists Tweet 2

So now we are not just looking at the number of followers someone has to make determination of their Twitter “worth”, but we’re looking at the amount of lists they are on too?

Yes, I encourage you (and myself) to ignore the numbers and just be who you are. It is a challenge we all face, but hopefully we will instead embrace ignoring statistics and pursuing real relationships with genuine people.

But I have to wonder if the masses are being manipulated a little bit here. It’s in our nature to compare and compete. Is Twitter counting on this to continue its growth by integrating these types of statistical measurements in the development of new features? I wonder. What do you think?

Categories Social Media | Tags: bkmacdaddy designs, marketing, networking, social, Social Media, tools, Twitter

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http://www.twitter.com/107designs Mike

Great post!

I think in the short run, lists will be a popularity contest. No doubt in my mind. In the long run, however, I believe that most people will be looking for worthwhile content and great online relationships, and not just sheer numbers.

Lists will be a good thing… they just need some time for the dust to settle.

bkmacdaddy

Oh I definitely see the value of the list feature. I really think it’s a great addition! I’m just catching myself checking that number right alongside my followers count now. It’s obviously flattering to be included on others’ lists. Just got me thinking…curious to hear what others think too. Thanks for the input, Mike!

http://www.v3im.com Shelly Kramer

I’m sick of the popularity contests and sick of people walking around with a false sense of superiority or self-importance as a result of this nonsense. Opinionated – sure – but then, you would expect nothing less from me, I know. I was at the 140Conf in LA this week and saw a presentation by one of the “Twitter celebrities” crowing about all the lists he’s on and, honestly, it made me want to vomit. Oh, and by the way, when he had a chance to stick out his hand and introduce himself to me, he was too obsessed with his own self-importance to do so.

Me, I don’t need lists and I don’t need to know how many I’m on to be confident in who am I am and what kind of person I am in the minds of others.

I treat everyone the same and don’t need to categorize, rate or judge. Period.

But, you are right, Brian. The list functionality is definitely the latest, greatest way we have to “measure up” and judge ourselves and others, yet again.

Annoying and so unnecessary. Oh yes, and manipulative, for sure.

Your passionista twitmigo,

SK

bkmacdaddy

I love that I can always count on you to say it straight and put us all where we belong, Shelly. Tell us how you REALLY feel, would ya?

What can we do to be rid of this mindset in social media once and for all? In life, for that matter?!?

I guess the more society continues to perpetuate the need for comparison and competition the developers of social networks will continue to make a play for it.

Come on everyone – can’t we show them that numbers don’t matter to us?

http://www.dallasseoblog.com @steveplunkett

LOL…

close to 100k followers
on 377 lists yet doesn’t show up in search…

hmm.. skewed…

not smart enough to protect and unprotect to fix the problem..

yet 100k followers..

lists mean nothing.

bkmacdaddy

Hehe…pretty ironic, eh?

http://rachelnpepper.co.uk Rachel

I have to agree with Shelly. So far these lists are all about popularity.

What I don’t get is why you would follow someone elses list say of designers. a)you could already have half of them and b)your tastes are most likely to be completely different.

For me tweekdeck is still more functional and useful.

bkmacdaddy

Thanks for the comment, Rachel. I agree with Shelly too. But I do think the lists are not ONLY about popularity – they do provide a nice additional functionality to the web interface. I’m just a little bothered that they also give us another number to watch. Or to choose not to watch. I think it’s done on purpose. I’d love to see a change in the mindset.

http://rachelnpepper.co.uk Rachel

I only think that they are about popularity at the moment. I certainly agree it was done on purpose, definitely not good for your mental health. It’s always sad when you lose followers, what happens when we get deleted from a list?

I personally will not be watching the numbers. Since I only log in to twitter to check out new followers, this shouldn’t be a problem. Unless tweetdeck change. So far the only use I have found is to discover new people I might be interested in, but I’ve already decided not to follow any lists I’d much rather follow individuals.

Stacy

Very true – some of the lists that I have looked at were really good for me BUT did have quite a few users listed which I would not like to follow. So the list would not be entirely great for me to join.

However, a good point is that I have found some excellent users that I hadn’t known of before, in a list that featured a collection of users who specialise in the subject I am interested in.

I think lists will be very beneficial for finding new people who are good to follow (they’d be unlikely to have been added to a list unless they were useful) so in that way I think it’s a great move. At the moment though, it does definitely seem like a popularity contest

Diana Adams

Oh, thank you so much for this post! You always write about such relevant topics as I was just tweeting with someone this morning about this very thing.

I have had an unusually busy week and because of that, have only gotten a glimpse of all this list controversy.

On the surface, I can see the benefits; however, like Shelly said, I do have a life outside of Twitter and I don’t have time to be bogged down with yet another number to keep up with.

I think for now I’m just going to sit back and watch what everyone has to say about this before I form my own decision on the whole thing.

Have a great weekend dear!

Diana

bkmacdaddy

Thanks for the comment, Diana. I hadn’t really heard about any controversy, but I just caught myself noticing the number of lists I was on and how it brought up that old feeling I used to get when I first started on Twitter and watched intently to see my follower count grow. I don’t like that feeling, and it inspired this thought process and blog post.
It’s always encouraging to hear from others like you who I respect to know that I am not alone. Or insane.

http://www.greetums.com Kat Caverly

I just saw the new Lists feature on my Twitter page yesterday and honestly thought “oh no something else new I gotta learn”.

I have only been using Twitter for 2 months now and I still don’t thoroughly grock #followfriday. Could Lists be a better way to recommend people I love to follow?

I understand Groups and I do frequently look at individual users streams for various reasons, but although I agree with you Shelly about popularity contests, the reality is that “their” votes count. Whether people are following me (or unfollowing) or adding me to one of their lists or reTeeting me or contacting me, I listen!

bkmacdaddy

LOL I thought the same thing about “something new to learn”. How are we supposed to keep up with the lightning fast pace of technology and developers?!?
Still, we’ll see how this plays out – I’ve seen a LOT of good response to the functionality of the feature, so it’s probably here to stay. I’m just hoping we don’t start having people game the system with the lists now. They probably will find a way…

http://www.joycecherrier.com/coachjoyce Joyce Cherrier

Great post Brian! I haven’t done my lists yet and part of that is really watching and seeing how best to create them. I’m also hesitant about lists because I really feel like there are bound to be hurt feelings even if that’s not the intention. Since social media is supposed to be about relationships, I’m personally struggling with how to go about it and observing how more experienced people are using it.

bkmacdaddy

Good point, Joyce. As I said, I think the fact that they are public may be a negative. If the lists are really for me to refine whose tweets I’m viewing and how, then what does it matter if anyone else can see them? The only reason it seems to matter IMO is to give us another way to rate (or berate) people’s Twitter status.

http://@maggiechk Maggie

For better or for worse, Twitter is taking advantage of human nature: it’s human nature to (a) categorise and (b) want to feel included. In the digital world, the latter now looks to involve Twitter lists.

The most popular Twitterers will not need to talk about lists before being added to a multititude of them. Having said that, it’s not just a measure of popularity. It will probably also reflect how tech-savvy and Twitter-obsessed their followers may tend to be.

In any case, it could be a good way of being able to check out who people recommend without having to trawl through their Follow Friday lists.

http://@maggiechk Maggie

@maggiechk

bkmacdaddy

Yes, I’m already seeing tweets recommending entire lists instead of #FollowFridays, which for me is a great improvement. Maybe it was even an inspiration?
Thanks for adding your two cents and insight, Maggie. I appreciate it!

MediaCollective

The value of lists is dependent on the list creator & whos list you choose to follow.

This again goes to the auto follow number counter types or selected follows because they add value, incite and engagement to your network.

Quantity vs. Quality

Also, I would think that lists are a referral of sorts?

Kinda like how link building works for SEO, you can have thousands of links pointing to your site but if they are from non relevant – related to your topic, complimentary or vertical.

They bare no weight to your ranking and can get you penalized.

bkmacdaddy

You definitely make good points, and great analogy with SEO. Thanks for your input!

http://sheristrykowski.com/ writer_sheri

Thanks for another insightful post, Brian. I tend to agree with Shelly. I’m just hangin’ out and enjoying everyone. Like you said we are all just on this journey together and it’s fun sharing that – and we all have lives to be enjoyed outside of SM. geez …

bkmacdaddy

Hehe…it’s good to have a few kindred spirits along on the journey, too.

Dwyndal

Brian, Awesome post man and yes the epeen (sorry ladies) of numbers will always be a factor. And these lists will pump most egos up beyond relief but as an individual view I am not looking at the numbers at the moment and rarely do. I go for the input and friend feature. I “tweet” everyone like a friend and don’t be fooled. If I’m talking to you, you are mostly likely my new best friend. I’m just that kind of guy, I love people and their passions typically coincide with my own.

So for myself I love the ability to list walk and find things and people I share a passion for. It’s easier than a #ff list guess work, when do you have the time to filter each individual to see what you like?

As with your previous blog post, I don’t follow people because they follow me (harsh reality sucks) but I follow what I want to know and hear about. It’s my choice so for me to be able to see lists, is awesome. I can find so many people of interest faster by sorting around list links from person to person. Sure beats the #FF guess work since that too has become more of a list rather than a singled out name and comment.

My biggest complaint is that it creates a mini-tweeter-feed on your list section, if someone has a dual tweet a day and very relevant and someone else tweets about everything possible with a lot of those are on topic with my lists it defeats the purpose. I’d rather surf individuals than a tweet-feed but maybe I’m missing the bigger picture of this feature. I’ll watch this list storm and see how it goes because not everyone has a list or uses it the same.

Again, love your posts man and am glad you get us thinking!

Dwyndal

sorry that was longer than expected

bkmacdaddy

No apologies for length of writing. This was one of my shortest posts ever so I am king of long-windedness! (I don’t think that’s a word)

Anyway, like your spirit – kindred to mine – and thanks for giving some more insight into the usefulness of the lists. Helpful for those of us that haven’t given them a spin yet!

Dwyndal

also just found out the lists are not your followers, you can list anyone and not fill up your feeds. This may be a nice twist on numbers control

http://www.kgcreative.com Kevin Garcia

I love lists. I have a few public ones. I also have several private lists that I dont share with anyone. One of the big advantages I see, is that you don’t have to personally follow somoene for them to be on a list, which is why I get the feeling that they added a “listed” count. I hope the popularity contest aspect of it will die down soon enough.

I can also see some good by creating weekly “follow friday” lists that are public, for example, but that expire and the main list goes back to being private after a while.

Those are some of my initial thoughts. I can see them being a game changer in some things, and my hope is progs like tweetdeck will soon integrate the feature so it’s seamless.

One of my problems with 3rd party air apps, for example, is i can’t install them at work (restrictive permissions) – so lists provide a perfect way to stay in touch from the web interface when i don’t have access to my individual lists at home.

bkmacdaddy

Cool! You can have “private” lists? I didn’t even know that! I can see how it will be good to share your lists with others (as recommendations, for instance) and I think your ideas of expiring lists would be cool too. I guess we’ll see how it all plays out, eh?
Thanks for stopping by, Kevin. Aren’t you supposed to be working right now?

http://www.kgcreative.com Kevin Garcia

haha. I am at work, actually *grin.

for lists, when you create a new list, you have the option of making it public or private. For me, private lists are a great way to organize my feed, while public lists i see as connectors, for example, i have a growing creative community list that I use to follow and connect with other creatives. I also have a smaller private list with people i interact with on a more regular basis.

SusanLorelei

Great Post!

Sometimes people forget what it’s like to be the little guy on twitter or new to twitter.

Maybe it doesn’t have to be an ego thing. Maybe it could be about helping those who follow you find even more interesting people to follow.

Just my Opinion …

bkmacdaddy

Thanks for the reminder, Susan. Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not knocking the lists feature itself – in fact, it seems to be very useful for many. I’m just wondering about how it may or may not tie into the whole “popularity contest” and bean counting mentality that so many get caught up in. And I’m intrigued by the thought that social network developers may be counting on that same mentality to spur their growth.

Dwyndal

that’s the hard part about it, it’s a useful and useless tool depends on who’s using it and how. I do see the founders using it as a way to get people more engaged and with that upping their numbers.

If anything, these numbers will help sort tweeps better than a wefollow.com list. That my friends is where i see this going.

http://twitter.com/BrendanJack Brendan

I will soon be on over a hundred lists. Once I’ve created them all and added myself.

bkmacdaddy

Okay, I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

http://twitter.com/BrendanJack Brendan

Cheers Brian. Cool post.

http://personalbranding101.com Ryan Rancatore

Nice post, bkmacdaddy. I wrote on the very same topic a few hours ago…I vote yes, lists will be a pretty big status symbol going forward (right or wrong). http://bit.ly/nPiKl

bkmacdaddy

Interesting post yourself, Ryan. In as many ways as it points to the lists as a game changer it also underlines my point: that lists are yet another number that people will use to determine something about a person on Twitter. And I believe that IS wrong. Neither you nor I nor anyone’s worth should be boiled down to a number.
Thanks for the link and the input!

http://blog.hodgsonmeyers.com Liz

Great post with lots of good comments here already. I completely agree with you that Twitter is banking on our inherent competitive nature. We all want to seem popular, be the “expert”.

I think Lists do have more merit than just number of followers though. If someone is interested enough in you to track you that closely, that’s a real vote of confidence.

I’m also wondering if there will be search/SEO implications with lists? Has anyone noticed yet?

bkmacdaddy

It does seem to make sense that if you are on someone’s list they are saying you’re something “special”. But then again, shouldn’t we only be following people because we want to pay attention to them and what they have to say? I see all kinds of possibilities for more “gaming” to run up the numbers. Guess we’ll have to wait and see!

http://skillz-community.net shurandythode

I always agree with you to the point that some people are just following people for the numbers. On the other hand, (in my case) if I think that this tweeter tweets inspirational links or so i will follow him/her just because of that. And I’m sure that one day the numbers will be sky high. But it’s not my intention to just go and follow people for a number. Sometimes I do not get into a close relationship with my tweeps but yet they are important for my inspirations. I’m not a number/stats chaser, I just do what i think for me is good to get inspired.

On the lists feature, i also think that it’s a game changer and another stat that indicates the status of a person on the network.

Great post here keep writing such good content I like it. I’m a frequent reader of your blog and you are also a great contributor to my inspirations. That’s why I featured you on this list _http://skillz-community.net/blog/millionaire-monday/millionairemonday-05/

Your inspirational links, thoughts and articles are worth millions of thanks. =)

Great job and I hope one day we will get to know each other better. =) Greetz

bkmacdaddy

Thanks so much for the encouragement and the inclusion on your website’s list! I am flattered!

http://cmdshiftdesign.com/blog Liz

More than the number of lists, I’m finding it interesting the names of the lists and I see where this also plays a part in your internet “worth.” In fact, the list names could be more important than the numbers, because the names of the lists – become Google juice!

Each list has a dedicated permalink, that ends with the name of your list (such as: twitter.com/username/web-design.) If you are a user who ends up listed on 100 lists that mention “design” in their title, this will effect the way Google ranks your profile.

Just my initial thought. Nice article!

bkmacdaddy

AHA!!! Very excellent point, Liz! I was unaware of this since I had not yet explored the lists, but you make perfect sense! I did notice some pretty funny list names when I briefly looked to see where I was listed. But knowing that they will affect your Google ranking could also have an impact on their usage, getting lists created solely for that purpose. Let the games begin!

http://www.gooddogcreative.com Eric

In our offline lives businesses have always manipulated this part of our nature to grow and/or sell but in real life the measuring stick can be many different things including but not limited to how much money you have, what things you own, who and how many people you know, etc. In our fairly anonymous online lives there are very few things that we can offer to people that quickly tells them they should pay attention to us, the main thing we have is the number of people who have already decided to friend, follow, watch or list us. Because of how the internet and anonymity limit the way this measuring stick measures, sites based entirely around being social really have no other choice but to use what we give them to manipulate us with. I think, in order to continue to compete with other social media, Twitter has no choice but to try to manipulate us this way.

bkmacdaddy

I think you’re right on, Eric. I have a bit of an ongoing rant against anyone classifying human beings as “targets” or even “demographics”. I understand the reasoning for it – it creates shortcuts to reaching the largest amount of people based on a set descriptive. But I tend to think it also treads dangerously close to stereotyping, and in any context I am completely against generalizing a group of people – we are all unique individuals, and I hate to see that trivialized by lumping us into categories based on the amount of money we make or the number of followers we have or whatever the routine. It happens, as you’ve nicely pointed out. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

http://www.myrelationshipsupermarket.com Anne Lyken-Garner

I tried working the list thing yesterday when I saw it. To be frank, it’s a great time sink to try to add the people you already follow to a list. Adding new people is a lot easier because like Facebook, you have the option at the time of adding them.

In reference to the popularity status of lists, I suppose different people use twitter for various reasons. I use it to network and to stay in contact with Internet friends. I don’t care about how many followers I’ve got. I make it a point NOT to add people who’ve added me, if I’m not interested in their work. I find that I’m more concerned about missing my friends’ tweets than anything else. Adding too many people is obviously not advantagous in this regard.

Helpful post.
bkmacdaddy

UPDATE:
After this post received so much attention yesterday, I decided I wanted to look more at the lists feature and see how people were using it. Then I got a DM from a highly-respected (and highly-followed) Twitter user who let me know he had added me to one of his lists. I was floored and flattered! Then I went to his profile to see which list I was on. It was at this moment that I realized it was a PERFECT example of what this post is really about.

I’m not against the list functionality at all. I think they’re actually pretty cool and will be helpful for people in many ways. I found myself going through the various lists I’ve been added to and laughing at the fun names for their lists that people have come up with.

What I am struggling with is the potential for “gaming” and abuse of the lists as a “social status” on Twitter, just as the follower count has been. And the simple fact that there is now another number that I can very easily get caught up in looking at and using as another measuring stick for my Twitter “success”. Yes, I know most of us proclaim that we don’t care about the numbers and they truly don’t matter. I agree. But I’m just being honest here. I can easily get sucked in to the whole numbers=success mindset. So I’m not happy about yet another way to potentially get sucked in.
That’s it. I just thought I needed to clarify a little. Please continue sharing your thoughts in this interesting discussion. Thanks for contributing!

intel_chris

I think this point of adding people to a list to get there attention is a valid and interesting concern.

Oh, and before I get to far into this, let me add my employer required obligatory disclaimer: I work for Intel as a network security researcher and so am interested in privacy and security issues, but I don’t speak for Intel on these issues. Theses opinions are strictly my own.

So, will spammers make bots that add a bunch of people to the list to get them to follow the bot? I think that is a very possible risk. I worry about this from the point of view that there are viruses coming that connecting to an infected twitter account can get you. So, invent such a virus, set up a bot and a list, get people to check out the list and thus the bot, get them infected. Scary and possible.

Even without the virus aspect making a list and putting people on it is a way to get noticed. So, gaming is possible. There is another blog discussing the consent issue on lists at http://j.mp/2veTI4. It is worth reading that discussion also.

http://thezargon.org Fernando Fonseca

Great post but, I would not expect nothing else from you, so you are not getting any kudos.

Regarding the subject at hand:
I really don’t care on how many lists I show up. After reading your post I went to check to what lists I belonged to and one was enough for me:
Being on Shelly Kramer’s “My-Role-Models” list is, to me, worth more that a gazillion followers and belonging to gazillion lists.
Quality not Quantity.

I do appreciate those that include me on their lists but to me it is not a competition or a number thing. It is a recognition, a token of appreciation and it should be used with care.

Just my 2 cents.
http://www.v3im.com Shelly Kramer

Yet another reason, evidenced above, why I heart @fjfonseca. What a class act. And there’s a reason he’s at the top of my list
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http://www.azzcatdesign.com Catherine Azzarello

Right on! I started ‘grouping’ people I follow w/Tweetdeck but lost patience and removed most of my groups–too much to maintain. Now lists. At first I thought they were the same, too. But the public feature changes everything.

I don’t even use FB. My kids do, but I’m not comfortable with the “friend” thing and other status info. Don’t want to post all the personal stuff online–and I don’t want to feel obliged to follow others the same way.

Still…I’ve been secretly pleased when my Twitter followers increase…but it’s so MIDDLE SCHOOL! Sheesh, like anyone would want to relive the angst of THOSE years!
http://bonscrapatitdesigns.blogspot.com Linda Walton aka bobbysgirlforever

Brian, I continue to learn SO much from you in regard to web presence period and having been “out-of-the-loop” for a couple of months as of late, I am trying to jump back into my social media circles again and am simply in awe of the new changes to Tweet Deck, which I LOVE! How much better can it get than being able to manage Twitter, Facebook and my favorite groups via hashtags all in ONE location? WOOT! My links are shortened automatically, I can drag ‘n drop a photo to Twit Pic, “like” a Facebook post or EVEN make a comment all within the same window – WOW! It’s ALL good on my side of the screen! *wink*

And now, lists …

I agree about the need to change the overall “mindset” in regard to “numbers”, however, I tend to believe that the newest innovations, upgrades and improvements that allow us to possibly become more time-efficient and/or technologically savvy, will find their way into the lives of most who are looking to stay on the cutting-edge of technology as well as to be ranked amongst the social media elite!

I glean SO much from your writing and it helps me to maintain a “peaceful” state of mind as to where I fit into the scheme of things, thus allowing me to stay true to my own self and not trying to become a clone of someone else for numbers sake.

I LOVE to socialize, meet new people and to learn something, if not several new things, each and every day from those “I” choose to “follow”!

Sorry for rambling on, but I always find you SO refreshing and while I have not yet made ANY lists, you shall surely be amongst the first of my Twitter friends to find a place on one if and when I begin the task! *wink*

Wishing you a FANTABULOUS weekend, enough money for THAT new tatoo you desire and continued inspiration to keep on sharing your insights and knowledge with us here at BKMACDADDY!
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